Well, so today you're joining us for "Dirty Talk" which we're really pumped to be able to talk to you about. As Kate said, it's a workshop we've done. We've taught a workshop on this before so we're really glad to talk about dirty talk with you today. Before we do that, let's introduce ourselves.
So Louise, I refer to her as my professional soulmate. We've been teaching together for seven years. We met when we were both doing our Masters in Public Health at the University of Melbourne. She's been teaching sex ed for grown-ups for a little bit longer than I've known her. She focuses on pleasure and sexual communication and also teaches health promotion. She's based in Auckland, New Zealand and right now is visiting me in Melbourne where I live and is a total badass. We've taught in Australia together and New Zealand together and all over the US. She loves maps, that's one of her passions. She speaks multiple languages and is extremely well-traveled and brings a tremendous amount of joy in my life.
Wow how about that for an introduction. Well done. Thanks Kate, that's really awesome. This is Kate Kenfield who is my professional soulmate. I think that's a great term that you came up with Kate, to describe our relationship. We've been sparking off each other for some time. Kate is originally from the US in California. She now lives in Melbourne. She works a lot in the space of empathy and does a lot of work with Tea & Empathy which is her brand for empathy education. She has some excellent cards. We're actually going to show you some of her cards during today's talk and what else can I say. She's a Star Trek geek. I mean there's so many things that I could say, I'm just not quite sure where to put the edges with introductions. She likes bubble tea.
We had a good bubble tea yesterday. This is one of our rituals that whenever we reunite, we go get bubble tea together so we did that in the Melbourne CBD yesterday. It was nice.
Kate has been major mentor to me and I guess I'm not giving you the best intro but she's given me so many great ideas for how to be a sex educator and I've learned so much from her. She's been doing this work for years from originally being a peer educator during her undergraduate degree so all sorts of public speaking opportunities and online opportunities writing for blogs and different well known websites so Kate is pretty awesome as a sex educator and as an emotional educator in empathy communication.
Now that we've sufficiently fan-girled all over each other, now we're going to teach you how to get each other off with words. How about that? So dirty talk is something that Louise and I are both really passionate at teaching about because it's something that could bring up a lot of uncomfortable feelings for people but when they can get past them, it can bring out a tremendous amount of joy and fun in people's sex lives. It's a skill like so many things related to sex. It's something that people think of as being this inherent thing that you're either good at or bad at. It's actually a skill set like any other.
Yeah, exactly. People think about dirty talk as having to flow naturally. Actually, people think about sex as being something you're supposed to just know everything. It's supposed to be spontaneous and if it's really hot, you'll just know how to do it. But actually, sex in general but dirty talk can be something you really need to put some effort in to learn it. It can be really scary to do it at first. It can be really gratifying of course, when you get it right but there can be quite a bit of risk so people could avoid it or avoid the embarrassment.
It's a conversational skill set but one that has quite a bit of risk associated with it because if you get it wrong it can be profoundly awkward and potentially embarrassing. So we wanted to start with a basic definition of what dirty talk is. It's essentially just language designed to arouse. It's very simply language designed to arouse someone.
So we've got that definition broad enough that it can be language designed to arouse somebody during sex but it could also be before sex or after sex or even when you're not having sex you could be sending sexy messages or making sexy comments. We like a kind of broad definition of dirty talk but a big component of it is when you're in the bedroom and trying to say the right things to turn on a partner and to request what you want perhaps.
Exactly. So one of the things we want to ask you is what are the feelings that come up for you when you think about dirty talk? In the chat box, if you feel so inspired, let us know what a feeling that comes up when you think about dirty talk for you. We mentioned awkward, we mentioned potentially embarrassed.
Maybe hot, maybe excited. Maybe curious, what comes up for you. As Louise mentioned, I use a deck of cards when I do my empathy trainings. When we were prepping for this stream, we went through the cards and we were thinking about what are the things that come up for people. These are my cards that have feelings on them. We were thinking that three of them that usually come up for people, if you can see this one. Awkward.
It's the idea of saying sexual things in the heat of a sexual moment can feel so outside of most people's sexual experience. It can be really awkward. Some people never say words about sex ever.
I remember you saying to me once that people often find it hard to talk about sexual challenges or what they want sexually because they so rarely talk about sex with a partner. They often talk about sex with other people like with friends or somebody where the stakes are lower. But actually talking to a partner it can be quite intimidating to find those words without practice.
Even with friends the way they talk about sex might be looked at in a joking manner. Joking about what celebrity is doing whom, not actually talking about sex in a meaningful way and certainly not in a way that's actually requesting something they want done to them or what they want to do to a partner. One of the other ones,
I can see someone said coming up in the chat room wrote repetitive. That's a funny one Kelly. It seems like okay it's hot but I've heard that before. Is that what you're getting at? Then Kim H says embarrassed and silly. Embarrassed like oh I feel a little self conscious. This is too silly and is this even hot.
Afrosexology has got some.
Oh that's a really good feeling constellation there. Wow. Awkward, nervous, creative, excited, surprised with what comes out of my mouth. Yeah, I love the improv. I think there could be quite an interesting overlap between dirty talk and improv. You can be surprised with what comes out of your mouth. Yeah, absolutely.
[Both] Paranoid I'll say something offensive.
That is so real, that is so real. One of the things I frequently think about with dirty talk, I was telling Louise about this. There's an episode of Seinfeld where Jerry goes into the bedroom with this woman that he is hooking up with and it's all hot and sexy. A minute later you see her storming out in this huff of rage and Jerry looks confused. You see the debrief later with Jerry and his friend George and he's explaining to George what he said to her. She then started to talk about her panties and then Jerry was trying to...
He was trying to run with the flow.
He was trying to run with the flow and he says "Were those the panties your mother laid out for you?" She gets horrifically offended which...
With her, it took her out of hot and into wow, so not sexy.
Yeah. This is a good example of some people, it really hits their hot buttons to say something about mommy or daddy but for other people, that's the most disturbing thing and takes them so far out of hot. So my advice would be never bring up parental language without prior consent to make sure that's hot for someone. It's real to be completely terrified about whether or not something's going to be hot for someone or not. That's a risk you have to take. Hopefully, you have the structures in your relationship to cushion that and be forgiving and gracious but also have the good sense of not taking it too far over the line.
Yeah. You can also do a bit of preparation like taking time to write down what words you think are hot and what words would really not be hot. I get when Jerry Seinfeld maybe didn't have time for it but when you're not sure, you don't go straight to things that could potentially be sensitive.
If you want to play a little more on those edges you can take time. Be like so what are some words that are hot for you? Actually, for our last workshop, we created that handout. We had a handout where people could circle what words were hot for them and list what words should not or would not be appropriate to be spoken.
I think one of the things that could be a great thing to do with a partner whether it's a casual partner or a long term partner, is to clarify what words for genitals are the most hot for you. Which is particularly true if you have trans partners, it can be extremely important in terms of demonstrating respect. It's just saying what are the words that you like used for your genitals that are hot for you? If you use an overly clinical word...
Some people are into that. I don't know who.
Right. If you're doing a medical fetish or something like that, using a very clinical word could be hot, right? You want to know what language is going to be better.
It's just like you cannot use vulva to describe my genitals during sex.
-Right. But somebody else that might be hot or if somebody uses overly spiritual language and that's going to take them out of it. For someone else that might be empowering.
Yeah the power of language. I'm seeing some tips coming in, thank you so much! We really appreciate it.
Aww thank you.
Enjoying our offerings about dirty talk and our banter. So thank you for your participation. There's another comment in there in chat from Kelly about feeling paranoid about being offensive. Sorry, we already covered those. We've got all our comments. What other feelings did you pick there Kate?
Vulnerable. It's inherently quite vulnerable. I realize that things are going to look backwards.
Oh well, reading backwards. That's alright. Such is life. That feeling of vulnerability comes up with again, with that risk that you're going to be saying something designed to arouse someone and that's an inherently vulnerable action.
Yeah definitely. You're going to be saying something to arouse somebody or potentially requesting something. You know especially if it's something that you want and that's part of your dirty talk. That can make you feel vulnerable.
People may or may not pick up what you offer.
Yeah there is a huge risk in that. Depending on the relationship too that you're engaging in dirty talk with. One other one: pressure. That was another one we thought that people would feel quite often.
Pressure. I've certainly felt this one. I know people have expressed this to me. In the moment they are faced with a partner who is quite aroused and who might say talk dirty to me or has expressed at some other time that they like dirty talk and then it's like the pressure is on. What do I say? What happens if I say the wrong thing or if I don't say it with enough confidence and it isn't strong enough. I think there is this feeling of pressure.
Like performance anxiety.
When all your blood flow is in some other part of your body rather than your brain coming up with good dialogue, yeah.
So those are some big ones. There was a lot of other feelings that came up too but I think those were three that we thought were quite common and what people have often told us in the work that we've done that they can feel when it comes to talking about the things they want sexually in particular, having dirty talk.
So those are some of the challenges that can come up. Did you want to talk about some of the enjoyable feelings that can happen when it goes well?
Yeah absolutely. One is connection, right? Having an enjoyable connection is kinda the whole point. Being on the same wavelength and having that closeness and being on the same page when it goes really well. It's incredible.
It can be an incredible source of connection and intimacy. Yeah, I think that's pretty straight forward. Another one is playful.
That can be such a wonderful energy that you can have a really good dirty talk. Adults don't get enough opportunity for play and dirty talk can weave that landscape really well.
Yeah. I think that's one of the things I most appreciate about dirty talk is that you can... It sometimes borders on roleplay. You're not fully investing in a roleplay but you can kinda say things which are a little bit out of what's actually happening. They can kinda spark your imagination so it touches on that playful thing. When you might be like you're the hot professor or the hot secretary, whatever it is you know? It's not necessarily what's happening but it just sparks something and it's a really playful kind of thing.
Are you laughing at me? I think for me playful is a big one. I don't know about you.
You're just sparking my imagination about hot professors.
I see. Did I mention my day job is teaching at a higher education facility or what the word is, institution? Anyway, what's the other one you've got there?
So this is one of the ones that when I pulled this out, I was like this is actually very true when I think about dirty talk but it surprised you at first.
It did. But then I made a good argument for it and you're like oh yeah this is actually it. It's efficient. I think dirty talk is wildly efficient when it works really well. You don't think of efficiency as a very sexy adjective but I think when you have the right language and you know the right words that hit your buttons, it can be the thing that takes you over the edge. When it's done properly and in the right moment and it's timed well, it can be really efficient at providing a maximum sexual experience.
I think that when I saw you bring out the word efficient, I knew what you meant but I also thought it sounded kind of like economics like a sort of...
It sounds insufficiently warm.
But that's not what I mean. It means kind of...
Getting bang for your buck.
Getting bang for your buck, yeah exactly.
Knowing how to hit the right buttons quickly and I think about it being quite useful accelerating. When you know that somebody's arousal is accelerating, you can kinda strategically use terms you know they'll find hot and push a bit further. Accelerating is the word that comes to mind. Even though I know that efficiency is part of it, that word resonates so much with it.
Right. Yeah exactly.
For something efficient you're like okay you've only got five minutes.
Well sometimes that's necessary. Alright that's a little feelings breakdown for you about dirty talk.
Do you have any other comments you want to put in the chat box about feelings that you want to feel when you're doing your dirty talk? If you're already an experienced dirty talker or you want to improve your dirty talk game, what are some of the feelings you'd like to feel when engaging in dirty talk with a partner?
Love to hear those.
I'm always curious about that. Like what things people want to feel because I think it's so individual. For some people it's wanting to feel really desirable. For some people it's wanting to feel owned or possessive sense or feeling really spacious. There's lots of things that people want to feel, I think, about that. It's so individual and I think one of the challenges of dirty talk is that there's no one size fits all approach and it can be a challenging facet of teaching. It's not like we can give you a script and say this is how you do successful dirty talk. You have to find your own words that work for you.
It definitely is individual but I know also through you and me discussing it, we've talked about some kinds of types of dirty talk. We need to break it down to types of dirty talk and we can help people get some ideas of what it is.
Yeah. Should we talk about the texts?
Yeah. Should we or do you want to take a break? Like not take a break and just wait and see if other...
Oh here's some new ones. Not silly. Yeah. Like just the absence of silliness. I can totally understand.
Yeah. Feel like I turned him on. Like getting that affirmation of feedback that what you're doing is actually succeeding in that. Turning him on, yeah. Safe feeling like you're not gonna be judged. Empowered and desired. Yeah absolutely, those all make total sense.
Lady C-Y-N says I feel like I'm boring. Maybe not putting it right or...
I think sometimes it's...
I was going to say maybe it touches on what Kelly said earlier.
Sometimes I wonder too if sometimes with sex there can be the attitude that other people are having way hotter sex than I'm having that isn't realistic and accurate. We can often think other people are having sex more often and it must be hotter and... I often get a, you must get this too. So many people tell me about the kinds of sex that they have and I suspect that I have a more realistic sense of what is the reality of what the kind of sex that people are actually having. Whereas if you're exposure is more limited in terms of that it might seem...
It sort of comes back to the idea of you've got to be competent straight away. You can't use this space for lending.
There can be so much pressure on people to be these hyper competent... Like sex must be amazing and mind-blowing.
You're gonna read your partners mind and know all the hot dirty talk things they want you to say.
Oh yeah, like you're not kinky enough. Right, which is just such a such a burdensome expectation to put on people. It's so unrealistic. So many sex educators that I know also feel this burden that they're not kinky enough and that they're not having enough sex and they're experts teaching it. And they often have more knowledge, but not necessarily are swinging from trapezes all the time.
Well, ah no, talk for yourself.
I just installed my trapeze, just kidding. There's no trapeze. Although I do have a loft bed, so I can install some kind of swinging gadget underneath. Anyway, we digress. Some comments about how people wanna feel safe, not like they're being judged, not silly, wanna feel like I've turned them on. Absolutely, like it's actually hitting the mark, empowered and desired, sexy and confident, yeah, and then we also have some comments about some of the more difficult or challenging feelings that come up when dirty talking. So, thank you very much for sharing that. It's clear to me that people are sharing some similar feelings, you know? Like there's some
Shall we go on to talk about the types of dirty talk?
Yeah, let's talk about those different types of dirty talk. I've got my sexy little notebook so we don't miss any.
So one of the types of dirty talk is narrative dirty talk. And this is really something when you're doing dirty talk that is narrating the thing that is currently happening. Sometimes when people are thinking gosh, what do I dirty talk about?
Sometimes it's just in a sexy way, describing what it is that's happening that moment. Even really nice when, what your partner wants to feel is admired, and affirmed, and desired. Like just saying, wow, your tits look amazing, and you're super sexy!
Yeah, you're so wet,
You're so hard, and I love the way your body looks and you can make that certainly kinkier and you could put that in a whole bunch of different dimensions, but basically just narrating in a hot way, the thing that is currently happening. Narrative dirty talk.
It's a really good suggestion or entry point for people who are unsure of what to say with their dirty talk to feel like oh, what do I say? Like, you're a sexy school girl, I don't know. Just dial back a little bit, and just describe what you're seeing. Like, wow, you know? And listen to your breathing, that's really turning me on.
Yeah, I love how you're responding to me. I love how your body is moving.
It looks so good in this light.
Yeah, I mean there's so much that you can say that's that narrating comment, that can be hot. And you can refine that too, and debrief later about what did you enjoy about that narration and how can I make that better?
Yeah, so type one, narrative dirty talk. That's your go-to, first variety, the first order of dirty talk, narrative dirty talk. What's our next one? We've got directive dirty talk.
Directive dirty talk. So this is about, making a suggestion or a request, like you're wanting something to happen with your dirty talk, like I want you to do this thing. I want you to, like... Go down,
I want you to, yeah sorry,
I want you to go down on me. I want you on your knees. I want you on top of me.
I want you to put on that sexy jock strap you bought the other weekend.
Yeah, right, exactly, she's more creative
I don't think I'm more creative.
That might be another thing you want to feel with your dirty talk is creative. So directive dirty talk is accelerating whatever it is that you're doing forward. And that can feel more vulnerable. Directive dirty talk can feel more vulnerable because you're actually making a request or you're asking for something that you want to have, it's up to you. Directive dirty talk.
So yeah, directive dirty talk is taking a step further and as you've said it can feel a little more vulnerable. I mean, describing stuff can feel vulnerable just because you're using the words, but directive can feel vulnerable because there's also a space where a person can either accept or not, or reject whatever it is you're putting forth. So I guess this is where the dynamic between partners and the trust that's built becomes a really important piece.
Yeah, absolutely, you need a certain amount of rejection resilience in order to be able to do directive dirty talk. And the last one.
And our third variety, the third type of dirty talk is,
Is nostalgic dirty talk. So this can be really nice for building the mood off of an old mood. This is when you do dirty talk that is based on something hot that happened in a previous sexual encounter. This is like saying something like, it was so hot when I had you bent over the table last Friday.
Well, then I'm glad you liked that!
Or, I was so turned on when you were sexting me yesterday.
And you can draw on on previously hot sexual experiences, it can fuel a current mood, and then you can build off of that.
Absolutely. You can also, I guess this is kind of like a bit of directive dirty talk, I'm not sure, but kind of like, set up dirty talk, like I'd really like to, when we experimented with a new glass dildo last weekend, this weekend I'd love to do more of that.
Right, so you're combining the two, right? Like you're taking nostalgic dirty talk and mix in the directive dirty talk. This is your 201-level stuff. This is why she teaches it.
It makes me think of a compliment sandwich, not that, but that sort of idea of taking one piece and adding something else.
Take what you did before and add a
Yeah, exactly. Well, I think this is when you build confidence with it. I think that objectively, the narrative dirty talk is easiest.
Right, and then I think the nostalgic dirty talk is a little bit easier and then directive dirty talk is hardest. So how do you kind of build your confidence with those and then mix them up? In an interaction, you can use all of them, but figure out where you're most comfortable.
Some people might actually feel most comfortable with directive dirty talk depending on their personality.
So feeling those out and which ones work best for you. Let's see about comments.
There's a comment there from Kelly.
What I have been asked to say and what is natural to me are very different, that makes it hard.
Yeah, that can be really tricky.
I think it's for a lot of us it is not natural to do dirty talk. Because I think about this with sexual communication in general, but especially with dirty talk, we spend most of our lives being shamed out of having meaningful conversations about sex, and in order to talk about sex meaningfully, we have to be comfortable saying the words.
Even just having a meaningful conversation in an emotionally neutral environment, like I think about the work
So like with a friend or
Yeah, or even in like a workshop that we teach, just having a discussion, like the discussions we might have about what were your sex ed experiences like growing up? Where people are talking about something that isn't about the sex they had or are having. That can be uncomfortable, just saying words about sex.
Because there has been so much shame leading on to it. So when we have a conversation about with a person that we are naked with, about what we actually want done to our bodies,
That's a tall ask, yet there's so many layers of crap that we have to peel away, that is not natural.
Yeah, it's also got a performance element, many actors are better, I don't know, it's a skill, it's a skill.
We have to be gentle with ourselves in learning how to unpack that and get better at it.
One thing I wonder if Kelly is touching on here, is when somebody expresses to you, a partner expresses to you, they want a certain type of dirty talk, where you know, and then it's not hot for you, you know? Like if someone says, hey I really want you to I'm just putting it out there, imagine that you're a professor and I'm a student, and talk to me that way. And then you think, uh, I mean could do that, but it's not really hot for me. Do I say the things you wanna hear because it's like an act of service and that's really like nice and cool? Or is it kind of like does it feel a little disconnecting actually to use those kinds of? What do you think about that? I think that's a tricky one.
Yeah, I think that's like sexual compatibility in a way. Like if it's something that you're interested in compared to something that your partner is interested in. When are you willing to go a little bit outside of your comfort zone to experiment with something that you maybe or maybe not be in to, but doesn't feel like a giant compromise, just feels like something you might be curious about, and that's something that could feel spacious to you versus something that you're like, hmmm, I know that's not gonna turn me on, and then, that's actually something that would be not okay for you to do. That's gonna be something that individual has to figure out. But maybe we should talk about how people can get some inspiration for the language.
Yeah, great idea.
I think that can be helpful.
You mean kind of like resources that can provide
Ideas of what to say.
Yeah, do you want to start with that?
I guess my first thought about a place that you can familiarize yourself with things to say for dirty talk would be to read erotica or stuff that is written to turn you on. There's a whole lot of sex books which might be more kind of instructive or descriptive, but erotica would have scenes where partners would be talking to each other, and you can read erotica and potentially earmark pages that you think are hot to you. And you can even run them by a partner before you're doing sexy stuff and go oh is the kind of thing that you might be in to? It can just give you some inspiration. So that's my first thought.
One of my favorite tips for this I learned from Ducky Doolittle, she was doing a workshop and she suggested buying an erotica book and going through it with a highlighter and highlighting the passages that you thought were hot and then giving it to a partner with a different color highlighter.
And then having them highlight the bits that they thought were hot, and seeing which ones overlapped and then you can see what passages your partner thought were hot and get this insight. I love that because it's a way of communicating without actually having an intimidating conversation.
Yeah, the sit-down, talk about it. Yeah, that's a good point.
I really love that. And I love the idea of taking time out of your day to invest in building your erotic vocabulary. I think there's something really cool about that.
Yeah, I feel like you've also got some suggestions that involve like Trello cards Google documents, google docs and sharing things and adding to shared drives so you can collaborate on creating kind of hot kind of dirty talk fantasies, plus you know, everyone has their own,
format, paper might suit other people better.
One thing I'd like to say about some of my tips, it's meant to be a menu, not a to-do list. I recognize these are not for everyone So some suggestions from me, if you're kind of building your dirty talk rapport, one of the things you can do, with a partner is just create a Google doc, and just write phrases in there that you want said to you in a dirty talk scenario. Like it's a very direct approach, but if there's specific things you want said to you, put them somewhere where your partner can find them. I think that sometimes it can be really nice when a partner can intuit the things that you want said to, but ultimately, like people can't read your mind.
Right, so if you're reading erotica and there's passages that you like, put those in a shared Google doc and invite them to do the same thing for you. That could be a nice shared activity.
Put them in some kind of shared document, where they get like a notification, you know? Hey, this is updated, the dirty talk document. You're like, oh, I wonder what she wants me to say this time?
I think that's super hot.
Yeah, that's really hot.
And the other thing that she mentioned was Trello. Not everyone's familiar with Trello, but it's essentially kind of a light project management tool like a lot of people use it to manage their to-do lists, I occasionally recommend having a sex Trello that you can share with your partner where you can have columns for different categories of things and you can have a category for things you want to do to each other, things you have done, but want to master, and things you've done that you've perfected. So you can do that with dirty talk too, or you could use it as an inspiration for dirty talk and you can share fantasies and you can share links to erotica and be kind of like a sexual resource for couples.
That's a great idea, yeah. You can do it with post-it notes, like old school.
Yeah, like have a wall
Yeah. Discreetly under a little curtain so that no one that visits can see it, but
Trello is a little more subtle since it's a website.
Yeah. I noticed that when we were preparing for this talk, we talked a little bit about some of the purposes for dirty talk. We touched on these, but I wonder if you wanna talk a little bit more, specifically, we talked about how it can be used for these things that I'm pointing out on my little notebook here.
Yeah, yeah sure.
So when we talked about the different purposes for dirty talk, obviously, the purpose is to be hot and to have good sexual interaction. We got a little bit more kind of precise on that, we talked about how dirty talk can be good for setting the mood, kind of like getting things set up, especially kind of pre-sex, like sexting,
Right, right, right, like building anticipation.
Building anticipation is probably a better way of framing it.
Yeah, this is something I think the millennial generation is nailing. The sexting, you can do all of this build up to creating a mood and a framework with words and gifs and stuff.
Yeah. I think we should include gifs in dirty talk.
It's not a traditional definition, but I think it sort of stretches the edges a little,
Of what constitutes language. Like we could have a good intellectual debate about gifs in,
I certainly think emoji.
Anyway, used to set the mood, kind of you know, get the tone of how you want things to go. And foreplay, as part of foreplay, used to turn people on, be suggestive, to say what I'm going to do to you or, what do you want done, or like, just to give some sparks, to kind of in the earlier stages of getting sexy. We also talked about how it can be used to test drive a fantasy and I think that's really an interesting one.
Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah! One of the, like in my work, we'll often get questions from people about how do I ask my partner to do this fantasy with me? Like some sort of high-stakes fantasy, like something like a threesome. Like something that's really quite emotionally fraught, like maybe really satisfying, but could be really emotionally fraught, how do I tell my partner I have this fantasy? And one of the pieces of advice that I would give is to essentially test drive it in dirty talk. Obviously after discussing it with a partner, but with fantasies that can have an emotionally fraught component, test driving them with dirty talk can help you kind of unfurl whether or not it's something you really want to actually go through the much more emotionally complex components of carrying out. Because when you're dealing with like the threesome example, that's bringing in another person's physical and emotional needs into your sex life, that may not be something you actually have the capacity to do, but talking about it could be wildly hot. And a lot of people do that, and it can be really satisfying. That can be true for lots of kink things as well,
And talking about the kink is really sexy, but you don't actually want to do the logistics of the kink.
It might be too much, also, I know people, sometimes for health reasons, or sometimes for disability reasons, there are things that people physically wouldn't find comfortable or possible to achieve, but by talking through them,
You can kind of, like a dirty talk version of it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you can have a lot of value from it.
Yeah, right exactly. Or you can just like out of laziness.
True, it's like we haven't got time to put on this whole, rig, but.
But pretend I'm doing this thing to you.
Yeah, totally. There's lots of ways that you can craft a lot with words.
True, I'm getting the whip.
Right! Getting the whip.
Or whatever it is,
Oh yeah, I love it. The threat of it.
Yeah, threats are really hot.
It actually reminds me of this other point we made about consent.
And how you can use dirty talk to determine consent. And the reason that whip example reminded me is because you can use dirty talk scenarios, I'll have to give you an example. So let's say like, okay you naughty secretary, you touch my tie again, I'm gonna have to spank you. So it kind of creates this hot dynamic, assuming the partners involved in that particular scene, you might find that hot. And then the person who's playing the sexy secretary, if they don't touch the tie, that's a sign that they don't want their spanking.
You know that's gonna be respected. But if they're like oh boss, you know, and they touch the tie again, then the boss goes, look I told you what would happen. So that's quite a hot way sometimes of navigating consent, kind of in the flow.
Right, right, right, yeah absolutely, yeah. I think about this in the consent workshops I teach, that there could be this attitude of consent thing that's very dry, transactional thing that's like can I touch your right boob, can I touch your left boob?
And it's, it can be much more nuanced, there's ways to do consent, and it's very quite, like that's super hot,
Right? Yeah, I love your, I love your creative examples. I want to just like to, if you have any questions about dirty talk, we would love to hear your questions, as we're nearing the latter part of our stream.
Yeah, we'd love to hear questions so we can make sure we focus what we talk about to address the things that interest you. And yeah, any comments you have as we go through we greatly achieve, ah greatly achieve, greatly appreciate, why did I say that? Greatly appreciated. We also talked about how one of the purposes of dirty talk can be like actually the main event.
Like it could just be about the dirty talk. Like maybe it's not about leading up to a sexual act, it could be, especially if you're like in a long distance relationship.
Like phone sex.
Phone sex, exactly, it's just the sex is happening through the words.
Yeah, you have to have a certain level of competence I think for that, but absolutely can be the main event.
You're on the phone and you're sort of talking through and then I would kiss you on your neck, and then I would whisper something in your ear, and then I would lick your nipple. That kind of stuff can be really hot, as a person's imagining those things happening
Writing erotica for each other.
Yeah, totally can be the main event. Absolutely can be the main event.
So, one of the things, Do we wanna talk more about some of the inspiration? We talked about books and how they can
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, let's get into that
Before we got into that tangential. So, inspiration for dirty talk, we can kind of find the language, we talked about how books and erotica can be a really great source. What else?
I think, since we've been relying on books and erotica, I wanna give a shout out to, erotica is, there's so many great examples of erotica and like not so great examples, so I just want to funnel people a good source of erotica. I love Rachel Kramer Bussel, I'm obsessed with her work. She writes erotica herself, that is fantastic. She also edits anthologies of a really high quality, and they run the gamut of a lot of different sexual interests. And I like to turn people on to her work because regardless of what you're into, like vanilla to kinky, like queer, straight, like a lot of different interests. There's something for pretty much everybody, and I really like to support her work. And the quality is so high. So Rachel Kramer Bussel, fantastic. Yeah, I really like her stuff.
We've got a really good question in the chat from Lady C-Y-N, she wants us to talk about inspiration because I think that question's gonna
Yeah, talk about more what I'd be in to, yeah. I think, Mojo Upgrade.
Yeah, there's um, so mojoupgrade.com is this interesting kind of online quiz where it's designed to be used with a partner, but I think it could be a really valuable tool for people to use on their own. Where people go in and they, they're asked about different sex acts, that they are or are not interested in. There's three options like yes, no, or maybe. And at the end you get kind of a report of all the things that you're in to. And with a partner, what you do is, you and your partner take the quiz independently and then you get a report that has only the things that you have an overlapping interest in. But none of the things that you didn't have the overlapping interest in, so you can the point being that you can be really honest about the things you are interested in and your partner will never find out, like you can admit that you're into knife play and your partner, if your partner isn't, they'll never find out, like if you're interested about something that's like kinky or like that.
Yeah, that's a really good suggestion for Lady. I realize her name is probably pronounced Lady Cyn, Lady C-Y-N, Lady Cyn on the chat, but that's a really good suggestion for how to find out more about what you're in to. I'd suggest giving Mojo Upgrade a go. And also, we mentioned erotica as being a source of dirty talk, but it's also a source of finding out what might be hot for you by reading all the stories
Absolutely, like I think a lot of them, so many of us don't get the opportunity early on in life in our sexual development to really learn about the things that do it for us, and it could just take some time, and giving yourself permission to do that personal development and take the time to have that be a personal project of what actually does turn me on, and read books and take classes and explore that so, yeah, Mojo Upgrade, erotica anthologies, so there's some good anthologies.
Yeah, where there's a lot of different stories and some of them might do nothing for you, and some of them might really hit one of those buttons. And then kind of exploring from there.
You also do a cool activity, in some of your workshops where you have participants think about the senses, like smell, sight, touch, and taste, and hearing, that's right, and people list things that they find a turn on for them that relate to each of those senses. So taste, they find a turn on, which I think is a really cool idea too, because it lets you focus your thinking. Because if someone says to you hey, what do you like sexually, or what's a turn on for you, you're like, ah, mm, eh, you know?
You got a few obvious thoughts, but it might be harder to think, because it focuses you on a specific sense, that could be really helpful, I think.
Yeah, yeah, thanks for that. So this could be a journaling prop that you can do, that's kind of connected to mindfulness in general, that you can make a little bit sexier. The way this would work is take five journaling pages, and write each of the senses on the top of each page, and take some time to think about with each sense, what brings you pleasure in each of those senses. Like what sounds bring you pleasure? What tastes bring you pleasure?
So not just sexual, but actually in general?
In general, yeah. That can help anchor the things that do it for you. If you wanna take that to a slightly more sexual place, like what things really turn you on that are tastes, what kinds of touch turn you on, what sounds really turn you on. If you're really kind of wondering on a more basic level, what things do it for you, it can help with just pleasure in general. And that's just a nice thing to do in general, as like an exercise.
Yeah, it's really cool. Afrosexology says thanks for teaching them about Mojo Upgrade.
Bringing back new resources.
It's a good one, yeah, it's useful.
We do like it.
It's like a It's like a yes, no, maybe list that's less clunky because you don't actually print it out, and yeah.
It's quite comprehensive with lots in it.
I think there's some things where they could they could add some, but yeah, I think it's one of the better resources that I'd seen for that kind of thing.
Some of the other inspiration that we talked about for getting dirty talk is porn,
Some porn may or may not, Porn might be good or not so good for this, it depends on how much talking actually happens, I suppose. But porn can be a source of dirty talk.
Seeing what people say in porn, or kind of seeing things that are done in porn that turn you on and kind of talking through those as part of your dirty talk.
Right, right, absolutely. Porn is like film, right? I mean there's some movies with terrible dialog, that you'd never wanna replicate in real life, and then there's films that are beautiful
There's really hot ones where people come delivering pizza and the dick's in a box, and you're like, oh the pizza boy, and then it's really hot, and yeah, exactly.
Yeah so use your discernment about the porn that you're watching and how useful it is for replicable dirty talk. But I definitely think that could be a resource for people.
It can still give you ideas. We also talked about fan fiction.
Oh yeah, yeah. I meet so many people in the workshops that I do on university campuses, that when I talk about fan fiction, they have this slightly embarrassed and delighted look that I've validated what helped them come in to their sexual being. So I think this is like for a lot of teenagers like they discovered erotic fan fiction on the internet, and so much of it is queer, and gender non-conforming, and a lot of it's really, quite, some of it's not great, but some of it's
Freeing and sexy.
Freeing and sexy, yeah, and can help people find language for their desires. So that's something to look in to. Like it's not all the most expertly written stuff, because it's not mainstream published. But it can be freeing, exactly and validating, yeah.
We also talked about how life in general can be an inspiration for your dirty talk.
For example if you have you know a professor that you have a crush on, I know we keep talking about this professor and stuff
Oh yeah, there's that, in one of the old neighborhoods I lived in had a really hot guy that worked at the post office,
What, you pretended that you were with him or you talked about him?
No, I just remember like going in and just being like, hmmm, this is a little joy in my day.
Ah, and then you go in and then you talk about the posties coming to deliver, yeah.
What's in my letter box? Sliding that envelope in, to the holes..
See this is why, like I love, you're just great.
I was imagining like Lou smudging the name on the address,
And I would get these giant boxes from Uber Loo, so I was like, hmm, what am I getting?
Yeah like UPS guy type fantasies, yeah.
I've got a package, it's a big one.
Actually, that makes me think of Legally Blonde,
Not because Legally Blonde is generally associated,
But some of it is, I'm just thinking of how like, the UPS guy, and the hair and nails woman, I can't remember, but you can kind of do a little bit of light role play.
You don't want to pretend that you are talking to the UPS guy, you can pretend that you're the character who's talking to the UPS guy. So maybe it's not just porn,
Right, like other movies.
Like film in general can be source of kind of role play / dirty talk inspiration.
Yeah. Is there another comment here? Oh Jessie is talking about Thanks again, thanks so much for expressing your appreciation, we really appreciate it. We're really enjoying, we've only got about five minutes to go, so, what pearls of wisdom shall we make sure we pass?
Let's talk about the modifier thing.
Ah yeah, good point.
Let's talk about this, so this is something I learned from Katrina McKay, so she's a friend of mine who's an entrepreneur and has done a lot of sex education work in her speaking career. I met her when she was teaching a dirty talk workshop at Playground Conference in Toronto. Playground Conference is an amazing sexuality conference,
Is she based in Canada?
Yeah, she lives in Toronto. One of the things that I remember her saying that I think is really valuable about dirty talk is that you can have a heated word, like a charged word, like slut, which is something that can be for some people demeaning, and for some people very hot. And a modifier word can make all the difference for how it lands with someone. So she was talking about how there's this huge difference between saying you're a slut, and you're my slut. And the huge emotional difference that that can have for someone.
And I think there's a lot of these modifier words.
Like, you're, my,
Or big and little
You're a hot little slut might be different than just saying you're a slut.
Yeah, yeah. Or dirty, or good,
Yeah, so thinking about how not just the core word that you're wanting to use to describe someone, but also these modifier words that might be charged for you. I think that's a really important one to think about.
Yeah, to experiment with, but also there's this space where you can kind of write down words that you'd think would work and which ones wouldn't. You know, would slut work for you, Kate, well maybe but especially if it was my slut, you know. That's a good way of working out what words are okay which ones the hottest, and which ones are kind of not so okay.
Right, right, exactly. And what ones are really off limits I mean slut's okay, but bitch is not, or like,
Yeah exactly. What about if I say, you're my bitch?
You're like ah, it doesn't really feel the same it just feels different. Okay cool, no bitch, just my slut.
Yeah, right, right, right. And having these conversations like in a non-emotionally charged scenario.
Do you think there's room to maybe sex lab dirty talk?
Oh yeah, yeah yeah! Talk about it, describe sex lab.
So I learned this from Kate, it's a concept that some sex educators talk about and Kate shared this with me a while ago and I love it, I've been teaching lots of people about it. It's the concept of a sex lab. Basically, like we've mentioned in the stream so far, often with sex, there's quite a lot of pressure to be competent, to know what you're doing, to be all like slick and sexy, and you know to be, to sort of, to know, but not necessarily to have a space to learn how to do it. And a sex lab is about creating a specific, designated time and place and kind of like a capsule to learn new sex skills without the pressure of being competent with it straight away. So with a sex lab, you might say with your partner, hey, we've talked about, or we've tried some dirty talk, it's been hot, but it's also a little bit clunky, I really wanna work on this with you. Would you be willing to set aside an hour or whatever feels appropriate, on Friday night and we'll just work on our dirty talk game? It's within that kind of time frame that you've set and you work on that skill that you've designated. It doesn't have to be dirty talk, it could be trying a new sex toy, or it could be trying a new position, or lube or massage technique or whatever you want. But in the context of today's topic talking about dirty talk, you could say okay, we're gonna create this space, like any experiment, it might not go well. You know, there'll be parts of it that are not so smooth, but also like experiment, you know other experiments, we do them because we're trying to find what does work. So the idea is that during the time you're doing your dirty talk sex lab, it doesn't have to be really slick, it doesn't have to be you know, sexy, and doesn't have to hit everything right. But the idea is after you've done that, you've had that nice trial space, so that once you are kind of having more flowing kind of authentic sexy times, you can bring in the dirty talk you've experimented with before in that trial space of the sex lab. So, it can be really good at creating a container that takes the pressure off, so that you can really explore, actually, was it hot for you when I called you a slut? I thought it was kind of funny, ha ha ha ha.
Right like, yeah and to me that's like really kind of the point too like with the sex lab, you carve out the time later to debrief from it.
Like what worked and what didn't. That's so often the, not something that people do, is make that time to exchange loving feedback.
Yeah, and if you wanted to dirty talk and you build up all this like, you know, courage to do it and you say something, and then like a person came back to you and they had, you know, your partner had some comments about how it wasn't so ideal, that can be feel really vulnerable and stressful, and you feel criticized. But if you created like a sex lab, you sort of know it's not going to be perfect straight away, and you're expecting reciprocal feedback and you're also expecting good will. You know, you're expecting like, a loving kind of trusting dynamic.
Is that a pretty good description of how a sex lab works?
It's certainly enhanced with a lab coat, so if you have a lab coat available, the sex lab can be more authentic. No, just kidding.
Unless that's your thing.
Unless that's your thing.
Then it's valid.
Yeah. Sapiosexuals for life, yeah.
So it's been an hour, Kate. We've finished our hour talking about dirty talk. And my computer's doing funny things, there we go, okay. Yeah, it's been an hour and we've just been talking about dirty talk. We've covered what it is, why we do it, what are the three types of dirty talk?
Narrative, directive, and nostalgic.
Yeah, excellent! We've talked about the importance of selecting the right words. Taking some time to find out what's hot and what's not. What else did we cover?
Where to get inspiration and, how to sex lab and
We talked about feelings too,
We talked about the feelings that come up for people when they are experimenting with dirty talk. And the feelings that people want to feel with a competent, sexy, dirty talker.
Creative and occasionally efficient. Well I think that seems like a great moment to end on.
Yeah, thanks so much for joining us.
Yeah, thank you.
We really appreciate your contributions, your participation, your listening, your tips, and just your engagement today.
And if any of you happen to be in Melbourne next week, Louise and I are teaching our Pleasure Upgrade workshop at Nikki Darling.
That's right, Monday night.
Yup, which is, information about that is at the top of my Twitter timeline.
Okay, cool. That was very strategic, good work. So much more on to it with social media.
I'm just @katekenfield on Twitter
Thanks so much!
Thanks so much for joining us!
Over and out, we'll see you again soon. We're actually doing another stream this time next week.
See you then